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Golden Lit Harrier
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Image Title:  Golden Lit Harrier
Favorites: 1 
 By: Marcus Armani  
  Copyright ©2009

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Photographer Marcus Armani  Marcus Armani {Karma:36599}
Project #56 Wildlife and Insects Camera Model Canon 50D
Categories From The Field
Film Format
Portfolio Birds In Flight
Lens Canon 400mm DO
Uploaded 3/14/2009 Film / Memory Type Sandisk
    ISO / Film Speed
Views 1371 Shutter 1/1500
Favorites Aperture f/5.6
Critiques 34 Rating Critique Only Image
Location City -  Santa Fe
State -  NM
Country - United States   United States
About Repost of the Harrier in which Avi saw some major flaws in. I reworked it but never really found anything major. So let me know..
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There are 34 Comments in 1 Pages
Doyle D. Chastain Doyle D. Chastain   {K:101119} 3/30/2009
I saw the exchange between you and Avi. So...time for my professional quality comment:

"Ooooh! Birdie! Pretty! )"

(You may quote me!)

Doyle I <~~~~~


Robert Chin   {K:22282} 3/20/2009
Lovely wingspan view Marcus,great shot as usual.
Been reading the comments all that processing you did to get this image shows your dedication.To be honest I can`t see myself doing all that work,I wouldn`t know what to do plus i`m too lazy to learn!
Got a D200 for visible light wildlife,felt weird without it
but got two Ir cameras both can shoot wildlife.
Great seeing your images here AGAIN.


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/19/2009
Just sent you a email, feel free to email me back..


Avi  Avi     {K:70138} 3/19/2009
thanks. btw, wanted to discuss about something .. can I have your email id please ? mine is given in my profile.


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/19/2009
UF wont let me type it so here I will try, skip the @sign between charactors..



Avi  Avi     {K:70138} 3/19/2009
what is the website url ?


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/19/2009
Thanks Avi, I didnt even know it, I thought I would upload it there as I entered it in a challenge in DPC 1000th challenge, It did not do real great, 38th out of 1114, I had to go though so many photos as in this challenge there are no time constraints, and decided on that one, Possible mistake, I think a flight shot would have done better.
If you have never checked out that site DPc you should take a look, its a lot of fun!
Thanks again..


Avi  Avi     {K:70138} 3/19/2009

Congrats on your owl on railtrack shot being selected on the daily Dozen in NGM.



Andre Denis Andre Denis   {K:66407} 3/19/2009
The money is in the mail Marcus.
We do pay a bit more income tax to include the health care, but I think in the long run we are better off to do that. I'm lucky enough to work for a company that has a decent drug and dental plan too. (an American Company btw)
As good as we have it with our health care system up here, some people are still hell bent on turning it into a private system.


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/19/2009
Thats great, you can send me 500.00 for the eye exam. Oh wait thats right you are in canada where they dont rip you off when you have a hangnail!
You know our health care system here is bad as I keep saying I hope I dont get sick I really cant afford it right now LOL...


Andre Denis Andre Denis   {K:66407} 3/18/2009
Hi Marcus,
Thanks for the URL. I checked out colour normal on all of them. Interesting stuff. At least some part of me is normal. :)


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/18/2009
Hi larry, how are you? good to hear from you! I think with the abundance of new TN panels with so many different contrast and brightness ratios, everyone is seeing things a bit different than the photogrpher that uploaded the photos, I know that i see things in others shots that they dont or they would not have posted them.
I think this is the way its going to be until there is some kind of standard, until then we have to do our post processing in a kind of universal way in which i have not figured out yet :) ..
Let me go see whats new over at Mr. Fosse's portfolio...


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/18/2009
Thats very true, And now that yo mention it I have Red-Green colorblindness, The funny thing is if i never took a test or looked at one of those charts I would have never known. It has no real effect on anything, just different shades of red-green, I get out of many tickets for running red lights LOL, actually when the lights are flashing I have to look at which bulb in the stop light is flashing the top or the middle, I cant even imagine what it must be like to be totally color blind..
Check this test out, The first one i see the circle star and square, the second one I see the yellow square only, the third one i see only the yellow circle, the last one I see nothing. Strange stuff LOL..
tell me what you see...


Larry Fosse Larry Fosse   {K:66493} 3/18/2009
Dunno what Avi found but this is a superb presentation Marcus...and it's also very 3 dimensional


Andre Denis Andre Denis   {K:66407} 3/17/2009
Hi Marcus,
A funny thing about monitor calibration.... even if we are not all seeing exactly the same thing, and as you say we have no way of knowing what other people are seeing on their monitors, we probably would still get some people liking what they see and others not liking what they see.
We don't even know if their eye/brain perception of colour is the same as ours. I know my brother-in-law is completely colour blind. I can't even imagine what that is like. His tv is always way off and he couldn't care less. :)


Avi  Avi     {K:70138} 3/17/2009
Oh yes.. very good discussion, and thanks a lot for the very useful link on monitors !

cheers !


Andre Denis Andre Denis   {K:66407} 3/15/2009
Hi Marcus,
Thanks for all the info. With me, I sometimes see a difference in images that have large amounts of detail. Not all the time, but sometimes. It doesn't really effect the colour. It seems more like a compression sort of problem, yet the images are exactly the same size in Photoshop as they are on Usefilm's site.
I know what you mean about being careful with selectively blurred backgrounds. Earlier today, I attempted one and didn't like the results. I posted it and took it down again. maybe I was too picky. I went back and tried a lower fstop with a few different shutter speeds to see if I could get the exposure decent.


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/15/2009
Hi Andre, well now that is another can of worms, color space profiles, typically if you see a different view in PS from what you see in your posted image, that has to do with what the graphics toolkit UF uses to process jpegs after you upload them. there are 3 that are typically used on sites such as this, Imagemagick, gdlibrary and graphicsmagick all of them should handle Jpegs well, but some are picky if you upload a photo with a non standard color space profile, I at one time had that problem when i uploaded using Adobe Rgb Color space, so I switched my camera, my adobe and my video card to S-RgB and all was well.
As far as my photo well I did work on it until It looked fine on my monitor but that as I have been noticing more and more is not enough, until there is a standard like with crts, this is going to be a problem with photos that are processed hard. my problem is busy background are distracting to me, so I am going to need to be very carful bluring them, no more 10 mins and done LOL..
As with the photo i posted previous to this it needed very little PP as many dont, but the ones that do I cant be so sloppy anymore and get away with it .....
Take care, until the next super blurred background comes though :)


Aylin ATASAGUN Aylin ATASAGUN   {K:13273} 3/15/2009
Absolutely perfect and Cagatay's crop looks so nice :)
Congratulations dear Marcus!


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/15/2009
Thanks again Avi, I am finding that I have to actually process with my S-Ips panel and then view via my brothers dell laptop which has a less than stellar TN panel, I can see the area in which you speak on the dell which means everyone else with a TN panel can also see It and thats a lot of people! what this means for me is checking heavy processed photos on seperate monitors, extra work LOL. well now that I can see what you see on the laptop I can fix it, but I dont think I will bring it down again as this thread has become very Intresting, Now dont go out pay 2k for a Ezio monitor as there are other S-Ips panels for much less. here is some intresting reading on whats going on now...
All my best, Marcus


Andre Denis Andre Denis   {K:66407} 3/15/2009
Hi Marcus.
Nice shot of the Harrier.
As far as the faults in the image go, I can't really see much difference between this one and the first version. I think sometimes it just comes down to certain colour combinations around edges that can be more or less pleasing to people's eyes. Sometimes I notice a significant difference in the image that I prepare in Photoshop, compared to the image when posted on Usefilm. I have no idea why it should matter, but it does sometimes. Is the slight green line on the shoulders of this bird something that you might want to selectively desaturate out of the image? That's the only thing I can detect on this one.


Avi  Avi     {K:70138} 3/15/2009
Hi Marcus,

What you said makes so much sense. I agree with you 100% on what difference in 'viewing' can monitors bring. I have been struggling for a long time with similar issues, as lot of people complaint about my pictures beig too *dark* and they cannot see details in the shades. I use a PnP monitor, (which is bright and sharp as hell, as you pointed out) and your words are giving me ideas about spending an extra 2k .. LOL...

Thanks once again for the conversation. This is why I am in Usefilm, and this is what I do not get anymore these days.. except for a very few friends.

Have a great Sunday !


Judi Liosatos Judi Liosatos   {K:34047} 3/15/2009
I love the colours in this image. There does seem to be a dark line around the top half of the bird....but....and this is a big butt.....I am not a bird for all I know, that could be a colouration on the bird.

I know that I photographed a Kite yesterday against a white sky and there is a very distinctive line around the top half of the bird....maybe this is a fault within the digital line.

Who knows.

As for a persons opinion on any image...yes, each person is entitled to his own opinion...but the photographer is entitled to listen to what he/she chooses. A viewer cannot demand that the photographer change any aspect of the image...unless of course that viewer is paying for the photographer to take that image.

As for sites like these....filter though the critiques...and choose what would suit you in a way that you would improve. Ignore the jealousy and the pettiness that is bound to occur on any site.




Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/15/2009
Thanks Cagatay, that is a very nice crop that gives a very nice and different perspective!

I was specified a certian crop size with this shot, and would prefer a crop simular to yours though i would like to put the bird a bit to one side and less right dead center.
Thanks again.


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/15/2009
Thanks Avi, Though this is the original background in a way LOL. It was very very busy, the bird was closer to the background then It looks now, Unlike the photo in which you pointed out where the bird was probably 100 yards from the background. with this shot I blurred it and erased the blur off of the bird with maybe 9 layers, (8 more then I typically use)each time if I don't blend correctly or perfectly it leaves a halo or artifacts. So I may have overdone this one at the pixel level, but I think it will do the job at the cropped, as the print looks ok, There is a fine line between natural looking and over processed in which I may have crossed here, But I do really value your honest critique as it did help me get a photographers view and perspective and correct what I did see at my end, though I cant see what you see what you are seeing now, It brings me to the fact that there is no real standard for monitors at this point in time, and people do see things within others photos that they cannot, I try to use only my S-IPS panels, the best that you can find in a lcd, Many are viewing with 3000-1 contrast ratio TN panels that are geared around multimedia IE movie watching, super high contrast photo viewing, these monitors though give a nice bright Punch, but a unrealistic view of a photo processed on a monitor made for photo editing IE my Ezio Flexscan, or most apple cinema displays have realistic contrast and brightness levels. So until there is a standard among photographers there are going to be photos in which viewers will see things I don't, and I may see things they don't. So I can only go with the printed version of the finished product as prints don't lie, This is why I asked what kind of monitor you use? It helps me distinguish what people with different monitors are seeing, as not everyone can afford to drop a couple thousand on a monitor made exclusively for photography.
But in the end like I said, the print is the tell tail sign, and photos processed strictly for the web should be given more latitude then ever due to the vast differences in user views, many of the defects and halos I see in others work I disregard as I'm sure they cannot see what I see.

Anyway, Thanks again for your honestly, It is appreciated..


Dear Marcus,
I hope you like my cropping...
Best wishes,



Avi  Avi     {K:70138} 3/15/2009
For a second I did think you minded it, but then what you said now has cleared it. I am a quirky guy, you see :):)

I will be honest with you, even this one doesn't work for me. Why, I'll tell you: the blurred background looks a tad bit unreal and the black border around the top part of the wings and the head of the bird looks bad. I felt that the post processing here was not right.

In comparison, I am looking at an old shot by you:

The bg looks more real, and there is no black border.

Why I say all these as I know what level of professional work you do, and I expect the highest quality coming from you. Of course, if your clients do not notice these and are ok, then I'm probably nitpicking a bit too much.

best always,


Marcus Armani Marcus Armani   {K:36599} 3/14/2009
No I appreciate the honesty, I did find some artifacts, and choppy areas around the bird which would have shown up in print, I think this was due to layering and blurring the background and erasing the bird several times..

I hope you dont think I minded the comment. that is why i posted it..
Take care Avi.. Marcus


Avi  Avi     {K:70138} 3/14/2009
The only thing that matters is your clinets' feedback Marcus. If they love it, don't bother about what some idiot like me on Usefilm says :)
peace, Avi


Vijay Kurhade   {K:10118} 3/14/2009
take care


Dave Stacey Dave Stacey   {K:150877} 3/14/2009
A beautiful inflight shot, and gorgeous colour, Marcus!


bill smith bill smith   {K:5416} 3/14/2009
Love the light here Marcus, The detail is stunning as well as the background.


srimanta ray   {K:2710} 3/14/2009
Only one word SUPERB.....


Yamil Saenz Yamil Saenz   {K:12434} 3/14/2009
Great shot Marcus.
It's difficult to focus when you have busy backgrounds like this one, but as usual you did a great job.
Keep them coming buddy, we really enjoy looking at your excellent images.






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